Nietzsche

Plato

While reading Plato for the first time this semester, I have come to learn that there are multiple definitions for the word justice. In book one alone, we have heard Cephalus, Polemarchus and Thrasymachus give their definition of justice as well as several others. The topic that I want to focus on is the section where Thrasymachus gives his second definition for justice. There are a lot of important aspects to think about while you are reading about the conversation between Thrasymachus and Socrates.

When Thrasymachus gives his second definition of justice, he says that justice is the advantage of the stronger and the ruler. Thrasymachus then goes on to say that the unjust are the ones who are considered the stronger, while the just are the ones who weak and are the losers. Later on Thrasymachus gives numerous examples of how the unjust man is stronger than the just man. For example, he says that a just man must always get less than an unjust man and in his example he talks about how if a just man partners with an unjust man, when they end their partnership, the just man will never get more than the unjust man. Another example is when Thrasymachus says when paying taxes, the just man pays more than the unjust and when they get refunds, the just man gets nothing while the unjust profits.

After Thrasymachus finishes explaining his definition of justice, Socrates gives his objection to Thrasymachus’ definition of justice. Socrates says that the just man is good and wise while the unjust man is bad unlearned and ignorant. Socrates then goes on to say that the just want to do better than the unjust and the unjust want to take advantage of both the just and the unjust. An example that Socrates gives is with musicians. He says that musicians want to be better than non-musicians but non-musicians want to be better than musicians and non-musicians. During this objection, Socrates does something that catches my eye. While he is making his objection to Thrasymachus, Socrates takes an approach like a lawyer. Socrates drills Thrasymachus time after time again and he makes Thrasymachus second guess his original thoughts. In a way he is being pretty smart about it but also in a way, he is basically manipulating Thrasymachus and putting words into his mouth.

Socrates then makes a second objection to Thrasymachus’ definition of justice. He said that justice is mightier than injustice. During this time Thrasymachus starts blushing. This could be due to the fact that Thrasymachus is not living up to the position that he offers and feels like he is being defeated by Socrates. This was also an easy objection for Socrates because he says a just city is more powerful than an unjust city. If you have an unjust city, there is going to be total chaos and would just not be as powerful as a just city.

Looking back at Socrates first objection, I had a question about one of one of his arguments. In his objection he gives the example of the musician and how the musical want to do better than the unmusical but the unmusical want to do better than the musical and the unmusical.